Use of "as"
A few days ago, my friend Kevin Kim wrote a review of the film Dolittle, and I openly wondered if there were a grammatical problem in Kevin's use of "but for me" in one of his sentences. I wondered if "but for me" should be "but as for me," and I quoted the sentence in question:
It might be that little kids will enjoy the film, but for me, as a crotchety 50-something, I had trouble understanding how the filmmakers could assemble this much amazing acting and voice talent, then shoehorn the cast into a plodding, predictable narrative utterly lacking in imagination and deep sentiment.Let's get to the root of the matter, as I see it. Allow me to shorten the sentence and also add the 'missing ' word "as":
It might be that little kids will enjoy the film, but as for me, as a crotchety 50-something, I had trouble understanding how the filmmakers could [fail so badly]. . .Let me also excise the phrase "as a crotchety 50-something":
It might be that little kids will enjoy the film, but as for me, I had trouble understanding how the filmmakers could [fail so badly] . . .This seems correct, grammatically speaking, but let's take the "as" back out:
It might be that little kids will enjoy the film, but for me, I had trouble understanding how the filmmakers could [fail so badly] . . .The expression "but for me" seems very awkward, likely wrong, and probably in need of the word "as," namely, but as for me.
I am not certain of this, for arguments based on what 'seems' awkward are notoriously weak. What do other readers think?
Here and here are some of the arguments so far.
Labels: Grammar
posted by Horace Jeffery Hodges @ 11:36 PM
2 comments
2 Comments:
You seem to be taking your argument in a similar direction to what Charles was saying in his comment, but maybe I'm mistaken about that. Charles was saying that, after the locution "but (as) for me," he wouldn't use a clause beginning with "I," probably because (and I'm guessing, here) that would be redundant—a bit like saying, "Well, from my perspective, I..." Is that what you're trying to get at with your stripped-down version of my sentence?
"It might be that little kids will enjoy the film, but for me, I had trouble understanding..."
So the question then becomes whether the redundancy must be eliminated for reasons of either grammar or style. The problem of redundancy is arguably more a problem of style than of grammar, so if we go with style, then the question becomes subjective, and we're at an impasse because, as I've said before, my diction doesn't grate on me the way it does on you. So that leaves grammar, and since I'm perfectly happy with what I wrote, I guess the onus is on you, good sir, to provide a grammatical justification for what is currently little more than a gut feeling. Provide a solid reference for your argument (The Chicago Manual of Style would do nicely), and I'll bow to your greater wisdom and happily change the wording of my post.
The argument continues here, and I've finally had the time to read the arguments more closely. As I've noted earlier, I think slowly and type even more slowly. I therefore also have to read slowly. I guess I'm just getting old . . .
Anyway, Kevin has the numbers to show that "but for me" not only occurs, it predominates over "but as for me," and since I'm not quite the prescriptivist Kevin takes me for, I concede the point: "but for me" is acceptable usage.
(I am prescriptive on "ain't," however. As the contraction of "am not," "ain't" is perfectly acceptable. It should not be used, though, as the contraction for any of the other five common conjugational 'spaces'.)
Incidentally, Kevin pointed to a meaning that "but for me" can express: "if not for me." I was going to note this point, but upon reading every word of the various entries (linking gets complicated), I see that Kevin covered it. This meaning of "but for me" depends upon the information that follows. This ambiguity, which is rather strongly imprinted on my mind, led to my initial question, I now think, though I only cottoned onto this point when I finally had time to think and write.
As I grow older, I'd probably best keep me grammar to meself . . .
Jeffery Hodges
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