An American in America!
I have the most interesting 'discussions' over at the Marmot's Hole, as regular readers have recently seen -- and now this objection from a certain 'M1M0' to calling the US "America":
"America" is not an accepted term for the United States, it refers to both continents of the Americas. this is my main objection.I've often heard such 'objections' -- and I ordinarily ignore them, but I felt like responding this time:
But "America" is an accepted term for the United States. It's short for the "United States of America" and accounts for the fact that this country's citizens are called "Americans." Everybody knows what country is being referred to when the term "America" is used, just as everybody knows who is being referred to when the term "American" is used.His response:
fair enough, if you want to argue it that way.To which I responded:
Thanks! What 'way' would you argue it?No response yet, but he's far more reasonable than ENNSE was . . .
Labels: America
posted by Horace Jeffery Hodges @ 6:16 AM
16 comments
16 Comments:
Just a little quibble Jeff, actually I found myself using the same line in a newspaper comment thread discussing illegal immigrants.
Alloyed "But they can't even be Americans in the first place!"
(That was actually all in caps but I don't think your site calls for hollering.)
Me "Technically, everybody born between the longitudes the US is contained within, from the Arctic Circle to Tierra del Fuego already is an American."
(There was some further back and forth until I posed the question, "1492 and ocean blue and all that - where do you [Alloy] suppose Columbus landed at?"
*He did know where Cuba was.)
HD
Yes, the issue is more complex than I portrayed it, but I try to keep my comments brief. I thought M1M0 might reply with a few of those complications, but I guess he has other fish to fry.
Jeffery Hodges
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What the man fails to realize is that "America" is in the name of our country. What else would we call ourselves?
Language usage changes over time and does not adhere faithfully to grammatical or semantic origins. Native and non-native English speakers across the world use the terms "America" and "American" to denote the US and its people, which is influencing language usage in Spanish and Portuguese, whose cognate "americano" is typically used to talk about US citizens although our country itself continues to be known as los Estados Unidos as America remains the name of the two continents in the Western Hemisphere. A Canadian or Argentinian is no more American than a Brit or a Chinese is Eurasian though the world's largest landmass may be referred to as Eurasia.
Sonagi
Brian, I suppose we could call our country the United States (or the US), but as for us citizens, could we call ourselves United Statesians (or USians . . . Usians)?
Jeffery Hodges
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Sonagi, does the singular noun "America" in Spanish and Portuguese denote both North and South America?
Jeffery Hodges
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I do not believe so Jeff. As you know my company has stores and facilities in Central and South America as well as Canada, and when we travel to any of those countries we are referred to as the Americans, or Americanos. Nationality, or country identity, is more important to the citizens of any country I have been in rather than any "continent" identity the country is in.
Jay
When we speak of both continents, we sometimes say "the Americas," but not "America" -- yet, we do say that Columbus discovered "America." I wonder why.
Jeffery Hodges
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Because Cuba, and all of the Caribbean island nations are considered part of the Americas. As stated - "Following are links to lists of islands of the Americas, or America, which relates to all islands associated with South America and North America, including those of the Caribbean." via Wikipedia when "americas" is searched.
Jay
Dunno about any others (something with my accent I suppose) but when I'm asked my response nearly always is;
"Arkansas USA, American South"
that includes the furriner people I sometimes find myself "conversing with" on the phone between me here in ... and say, Boston. Generally speaking, it's far more difficult to convey to a Beltway person "Nope, I don't care what you've on special what I want isn't even on your menu"
and that even includes "people Arkansas born" who've spent more'n six months learning whatever tongue the particular lobbyist is speaking in.
HD
But I wonder, Jay, why we don't say that Columbus discovered "the Americas."
Perhaps many years transpired before Europeans realized there were two continents?
Did Amerigo Vespucci know?
Jeffery Hodges
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HD, my students often refer to the American South as "South America."
Jeffery Hodges
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Yes, Jeffery, the name America denotes both continents in Spanish and Portuguese although the two languages use the words Norte and Sur to distinguish the two land masses. Folk sayings like "Columbus discovered America" are not always historically or semantically accurate, now, are they? IMO, there is no reason for the US to honor Columbus with a holiday. Ponce De Leon was the first documented explorer to reach the North American land mass, and Christopher Newport deserves credit for founding the first permanent English settlement in the US. It was a moving experience for me to visit the Jamestown settlement, learn about the extreme hardships of the first settlers, and realize that 60 survivors out of 400 original inhabitants would seed a new country that would grow into a superpower. I understand that our growth came at the expense of native peoples yet must acknowledge that our new country has provided refuge and opportunities for so many.
Sonagi
Sonagi, just to be absolutely clear, does the singular word "America" denote both continents in Spanish and Portuguese? People say "America" in the singular (not "Americas") and mean both North and South America simultaneously?
Jeffery Hodges
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America: both continents
America del Norte
America del Sur
Las Americas is never used in Spanish or Portuguese.
Sonagi
Thanks, Sonagi. That's interesting.
Jeffery Hodges
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